Duck hunters bought 12-gauge doubles with 3-inch chambers to use the new Super-X magnum load, the Super Twelve as it was soon called. Shooting the Model 12 Duck Gun I own two Model 12 duck guns. Winchester Model 1300 Speed Pump - 12 GA $395.00: 0 $395.00 1d 15h 33m 17222600. Thanks for all the info,my Grandfather died when I was in 12th grade in 1971 and I now have his field grade Mod.12 and 9 others love them all.I also have my Great Grandfathers Mod.97. The standard length was 2-5/8 inches. Thus it was that the American Rifleman staff thought it odd that Winchester brought out the 3-inch chamber in their Model 12 pump gun. Then people would choose a grade of model 12 and add or change things to ther hunting or shooting style. The barrel is stamped "WS 1" with 2 3/4, ****SOLD******Mfg 1956, 30" 2-Pin Vent Rib, Full, B-Carved Wood, 13 3/4" Lop to Winchester Pad, Wood shows some handling marks Nothing Bad, 90-95% Blue, Shiney Bore, Buyer pays 60.00 shippin. Notes - Delivery *Estimated delivery dates include seller's handling time, origin ZIP Code, destination ZIP Code and time of acceptance and will depend on shipping service selected and receipt of cleared payment. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Buckingham recorded his adventures in some of the best hunting stories ever written. It is in excellent condition with only light handing marks, Used Browning BT99 Plus 12 gauge 28" bbl fixed choke mod good condition no box no manuals Buyer pays shipping Millers Gun Center Located in New Castle, Delaware "Home of TAX, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 16GA PUMP ACTION SHOTGUN, 26" BBL, 2 3/4, POLY CHOKE, RIBLESS, EJECTORS, SINGLE TRIGGER, MEDIUM DARK FIGURED WALNUT, PISTOL GRIP, LOP 14 3/8, 1 1/2, 2 5/16, 7LBS 3OZ, 985 BLUE, Winchester. *** RARE *** Winchester Model 12 HEAVY DUCK GUN limited production run that combines the pre-64 Model 12 with a 12 ga. Magnum 30" barrel, factory production 3" Magnum, with a factory Simmons Vent Rib on an upgraded wood stock! So here is a history lesson on the skeet grade. Auction Date: December 7, 2019 Estimated Price: $ 8,500 - $ 13,000 Price Realized: Details Exceptional and Documented Smoothbore Winchester Model 61 Slide Action "Rifle" with Simmons Vent Rib and Box Manufacturer: Winchester Model: 61 Type: Shotgun Gauge: 22 LR Shot Barrel: 24 inch vent rib Finish: blue Grip: Stock: walnut Item Views: 1599 The committee appointed to study the requirements for continuing business reported a successful reorganization would require the raising of a substantial amount of new capital. That capital was supplied by the Olin family of Olin Industries, owners of Western Cartridge Company. . Number 8 and 2 shot provided wider and more even patterns with no center thickening. Askins rule of thumb of 70 years ago still pertains with modern lead-shot ammunition. Model 42s with later ribs than the donut post, with no Simmons markings or with Simmons markings, and with proof marks in the proper places are thought to have had their ribs installed at Simmons and sent back to Winchester for marketing or marketed at Simmons. Item . Optional dimensions for straight or pistol grip stocks, grip caps, front sights and recoil pads were also among early options. Buy 1955 Winchester Model 12 20 GA Simmons Rib AA+ Wood: GunBroker is the largest seller of Pump Action Shotguns Shotguns Guns & Firearms All: 974012213. The balance point is the takedown joint. Winchester symbol # G1285S. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The late style stock featured a flared pistol grip moved back a bit from the trigger. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. For more information: www.p65warnings.ca.gov. It is first shooting light. The original "Old milled rib" was developed by Winchester in the 1920's- but like so many of the older quality features, post WW11 competition by Remington and Ithaca made Olin-Winchester more "cost concerned"-- Many Model 12's were equipped with Simmons ribs afterwards, some were sent to New Haven by Simmons, and some Model 12's (and others . Simmons Gun Specialties rib has been added to barrel. IMMEDIATELY its how business should be done. I don't believe their ever was a royalty, actually Simmons kept selling his special vent rib model 12's after the 1955 introduction of the Winchester Special Vent Rib @ New Haven. I kept the ones that were dearer to me so now they live in safes and I hate the safes. When I dress Western, nothing beats the classic good looks of my Smith & Wesson (S&W) 586 .357 revolver. Could it be that the intended rough usage led to lack of care in the fitting of parts of early duck guns? Winchester undertook preparations for improvements in its firearms line following World War II. This gun is in excellent condition and has very desireable solid rib barrel with full choke. so recall pads helped and they offerd hydro coil-stocks. As to price, it will also depend on gauge, barrel length, choke, barrel steel, wood type, pad vs. plate, etc. Teal, mallard, widgeon and sprig [pintail] hover singly and in bunches overhead. becouse plain barrels shoot higher than solid ribs do ,solid ribs shoot flatter. Winchester Model 12 Pigeon 28 Gauge Single Family Owned Since 1967, Vent. (no choke stamp on barrel). To elaborate on lowgun's response, the "round post" rib was made by Simmons, not Winchester. SAME RECEIVER AS MODEL 12 BUT MAD, Guns Listing ID: 640773MAKE - WINCHESTERMODEL - 12FINISH - BLUEDBARREL - 28\"CALIBER - 12 GAUGECAPACITY - N/AGRIPS - WOODCONDITION - VERY GOODFEATURES - HYDRACOIL STOCK & MODIFIED BARREL, Winchester Model 1912 Nickel Steel 20 gauge EARLY Serial # Up for sale is a used Winchester Model 1912 Nickel Steel 20 ga, 2 3/4" chamber, 24" VR barrel stamped full but reads IM on a bra, Winchester - Model 12 Factory Try-Gun, 12ga. Come join the discussion about targets, clays, hunting, gunsmithing, gear reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! My 1951 Winchester Ammunition Handbook gives a comparison of 17 to 11 feet at 60 yards. I used to club trap targets with it. BARREL 30" CHOKE FULL 90% FACTORY BLUE ORIGINAL FACTORY HEAVY DUCK RECOIL PAD WOOD VERY GOOD. Askins Ithaca 10-gauge double with 2 7/8-inch chambers averaged 86.9% with 1 5/8-ounces of shot. seller description. According to my source your Model 12 Winchester was made in 1924, so it is 89 years old. Standard markings, with matching numbers on the receiver and barrel. The point is the model 12 evolved. This combination, which averaged 83.6% at 40 yards, averaged 44.2% at 60 yards! I recently acquired a 1921 gun. Mechanically excellent. Popularly named the Perfect Repeater at its introduction, it largely set the standard for pump action shotguns over its 51-year high-rate production life. He spent many years as firearms editor for Outdoor Life and later Field and Stream, as well as shotgun editor for the American Rifleman. No Reserve. Many online gun sales actually take away from your local Nickel and ivory sight beads on the aftermarket Simmons rib, with choke marked full and 2 3/4 inch chamber. I included tungsten polymer shot because it is non-toxic to waterfowl and has the same density as lead. A red rubber Winchesterre coil pad was added the first year of production. The Olins bought Winchester for $8.1 million through a combination of $3.3 million cash and the balance in an issue of preferred stock. $899.97. Nickel and ivory sight beads on the aftermarket Simmons rib, with choke marked full and 2 3/4 inch chamber. It would stop ducks consistently at 80 yards. Two years after Askins wrote the above, he received from Ithaca the first 3 1/2inch Magnum 10 double off the assembly line. There are 16 pages of loads for various shell lengths, shot sizes (dust through buck, soft or chilled), five powders, five shell grades and 11 gauges. I still have a few 2nd style action slides left. And, as WRACO states, Simmons installed Model 12 ribbed guns were sold by Simmons, not Winchester. Madis states Ventilated ribs were rarely offered on [duck] guns. However, The fact is a few duck guns were provided with these ribs. Dave Riffles book and the various catalogs I have indicate that the Winchester new ventilated rib was an option from about 1954 to 1959. Loose bolts and excess head-space occur only after long service. Model 12 duck guns are highly specialized tools for a very limited number of duck hunters who can regularly center a duck at 40-60 yards, and need to. customers to the absolute best of our abilities. Ernie special order model 12's from Winchester to add his Dounut Vent Rib. , Winchester - Model 12, Deluxe, Pump Action, RARE 28ga. Has a Cutz on the end of the barrel. When winchester changed the chamber to 3" did they mark the barrels or reproof? The buttstock was reshaped on Model 12 shotguns again in the mid-1950s. Winchester Model 12 16 ga NIB Never Assembled! Today I have a nice collection of them, mostly target grade guns. The slide handle of early duck guns was round with 18 circular grooves. Stock is very fine, with light scratching, pressure dents and an attractive grain pattern. Smith brand, by the A.H. Fox Company of Philadelphia, by Parker, and by Ithaca. during that time I handled many M-12's of varying configurations. generous return policy, and handle everything you dont have to go back to The duck guns reputation was made with the one and five-eighths ounce load, the heaviest 12 magnum load from about 1935 to the mid-1950s. The load averaged 67.5% (range 62-72.5%), in a 30-inch circle at 40 yards. The Winchester Model 12 Heavy Duck Gun Proved Itself a Shooter, Colt No Longer Exclusive Owner of M4 Rifle, Mossberg 940 Pro Turkey & Tactical Review: Shotgun Shangri-La, SHOT Show 2023 Picks: Fossari CRX9 Sporting Over/Under, SHOT Show 2023 Picks: Browning Citori High Grade 50th Anniversary, 8 On-Target Concealed Carry Insurance Options (2022), 10 Affordable Double-Barrel Shotgun Options (2022), Best AR-15 Options For Any Budget And Buyers Guide (2022), Best Concealed Carry Handguns For Women (2022). The straighter stock reduced perceived recoil. The duck gun version of the Model 12, introduced in 1935, was a natural consequence of duck hunters in charge of Winchester. I know of a gun shop in Idaho that can take about any model 42 and put on round post ribs or solid ribs that are just like factory original with the proof marks. Recent 3 1/2-inch 12-gauge shells will create dangerous pressure in the 3-inch duck gun chamber. When I went to the university in a different town I worked for another gun shop that was an authorized Winchester Repair Center. Cred, Ser no 510553, Mfg 1928 , Numbers Match, 30" Donut Post Vent Rib that is stamped Imp Cyl but has been relined and is Mod, 2nd barrel is 30" Donut Post Vent Rib stamped full but is Mod, Stamp, This Winchester Model 12 was manufactured in 1955 and is in good condition for its age. But getting back to the original question, a Simmons rib does detract from the value of a Model 12 and most people will turn away from them. Winchester ~ Model 12 Trap ~ Pump Action Shotgun ~ 12 Gauge. 1 9-16" DAC, 1 9-16" DAH, 14 1/2, Very good plus overall condition. The old trap shooters didn't and they did just fine. Also available initially were standard trap and special trap grades. Thereafter, a staggering number of variations were produced during the 1912-1980 period. Although acquired many years apart, the two duck guns are of nearly the same vintages, 1952 and 1953. No Reserve. Since you in Kansas; ever deal with now deceased Felix Bedlan @ Fairbury, Neb. I believe the solid ribs were soft (lead) soldered like the model 21's. The slide lock is automatically released by the forward nudge of recoil in the Model 12. A Simmons Rib has been added to the barrel and the metal was refinished. We join Buckingham in his ducking skiff as he is poled through the bayou by Ab, his black guide. Winchester Model 12 12 GA For Sale Winchester 12 GA Model 12. ORIGINAL BOX INCLUDED. Winchester Model 1300 Speed Pump - 12 GA $395.00: 0 $395.00 5d 15h 14m winchester model 12 heavy duck gun 30" simmons vent rib 1953 pre-64 rare 12 ga. magnum 3" edition proof marking - 12 gauge magnum - 5 - 30 " Buckingham is jump-shooting with his big double gun. Winchester dutifully shipped its duck guns with a wooden plug installed to limit magazine capacity to two shells. Reduced bag limits and shell capacities for repeating shotguns were introduced. The stock is the upgraded Monte Carlo style capped pistol grip, heavy pad, upgraded wood, and cheek rest. However, Winchesters ribs were not marked with the Simmons name and Kansas City address as mine is. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Its been debated over the years if the solid rib model 12 barrel were silver brazed or fused with heat? It is not as slow or pokey as one might expect. The staff shot skeet with the gun and concluded It is not as fast as the standard Model-12, but nearly so., In further shooting tests the staff found We could not discern any practical difference in recoil effect when shooting standard three inch heavy duck loads. Winchester supplied two boxes of 3-inch shells loaded with 1 3/8-ounces of #5 chilled shot pushed by four drams equivalent of powder. the barrel and chamber are bright and clean. A milled rib Model 12 is a milled rib Model 12, but the terminology is used a bit loosely. of a company that is committed to your satisfaction. Winchester made changes to the stock of the Model 12 duck gun after its introduction. Franklin W. Olin founded Western Cartridge Company in 1898. Get 12 Issues a year of the country's best firearms writing. I found some they didn't. The standard 12-gauge duck load in 1921 was a 2 3/4-inch shell holding 3 3/4-drams equivalent powder and 1 1/4-ounces of shot. Ducks Unlimited was born in 1937 to aid in restoration of wetland breeding areas, primarily in Canada. This shotgun is in near new condition in the original box. Winchester cautiously claimed 70 to 75% pattern in a 30 inch circle at 40 yards.. Lay-a-way available for t, Excellent overall condition sporting original finishes. I offer the following example from What Rarer Day in Buckinghams book De Shootinest Gentman and Other Tales published in 1934. Also, the rib and its receiver extension cover the Winchester proof marks, a sure sign that it is not factory installed. 80 of 1916 indicates seven empty 12-gauge paper shell lengths (2-1/2 to 3-1/4 inches). That way, were helping small businesses in Their attitude is summed up by Elmer Keith in Shotguns by Keith: the satisfaction of seeing big ducks crumple at long range and come down and bounce on the ground or splash high in the water is the cream of shotgun shooting., It is my view that the long-range duck-hunting cult was a legacy from the days of market hunting. Simmons vent rib and custom AA+ walnut furniture. Mar 24, 2023 Winchester Model 12 Shotgun $150 Mar 24, 2023 Two Winchester Pump Shotguns $150 Mar 24, 2023 L.C. The Simmons rib is done at Winchesters direction as it has the WP proof offset from the rib. Two birds tumble all awry from among the leaders. John Olin initiated an analysis of Winchesters commercial line in 1942. Both shotguns shot to point of aim and all patterns were contained on the target paper due to precise aiming, facilitated by placing a 25-pound sack of lead shot between me and the gun butt. However, the Model 12 duck gun should still be an excellent long-range waterfowl shotgun with the right ammunition. Edwin Pugsley, in charge of Winchester at the time of receivership, is quoted in Williamsons book: The purchase of the company by the Olin interests brought a breath of life to the institution and brought to Winchester many things. As you know that, Winchester Model 12 (factory original) 28-gauge pump action shotgun. Has 30" barrel choked Full. Enthusiastic hunters bought the new repeater. By 1955, the options were matted rib, ventilated rib, straight or pistol grip stock and buttstock and extension slide handle checkered. Full choke was the only standard boring available. I would think if you did shoot you proble flinch like heck becouse ther must be a lot of jerk in you. WARNING! ONLY ONE EVER PRODUCED BY WINCHESTER, ULIMATE RARITY. SN 1231992 Up for sale is a very clean and unique Winchester Model 12 in Pigeon Grade. One of my favorite subjectsI've read and reread the books by Madis, Riffle, and Stadt, and I still find it a little confusing. Bore and action are excellent. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. The stock has a hard-rubber plate and a real, full pistol grip carved close to the guard. Clear (Winchester Wikipedia Page) 27 Item(s) Found Page 1 1. THE SHOT GUN IS IN VERY GOOD CONDITION , WITH A 28 IN VENTILATED RIB BARREL WITH FULL CHOKE. He worked with another Winchester researcher. The new value of a WINCHESTER MODEL 12 shotgun has fallen ($937.31) dollars over the past 12 months to a price of $484.80 . The Pitt-man-Robertson Act of 1937 began an 11 percent excise tax on sporting arms and ammunition. It was a little rough so I am doing a restoration. And our Winchester Model 12 with checkered forearm (slide handle) b'. It's what was refered to as a "Olympic Rib". $550 USD. Winchester was bankrupt and went into receivership in January 1931. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. RIAC believes that this website is accessible to the widest possible audience pursuant to the guidelines of the Americans with Disability Act. Pandemonium! This fine shotgun comes from the factory with a Cutts choke system, Metal surfaces rate near excellent, handling marks to wood. The fact that the Winchester proof marks are now 'off set', caused me to believe the gun may have been returned to the factory for the rib installation. I decided to test the patterning of the five loads detailed in the accompanying table. It was Western that produced the 3 1/2-inch 10-gauge magnum with 2 ounces of shot in 1932. The Olins soon added to the attractiveness of the Model 12 duck gun by bringing out a new 1 5/8-ounce load for the 3-inch shell. Winchester Model 12 Skeet Gun 12 gauge with 25" Solid Rib Barrel - 12 GA: 0 5d 7h 6m 17240921. However, Winchester and his succeeding family members successfully managed Winchester Repeating Arms Company from 1866 to 1919. The 30" vent rib barrel is very good with a bright shiny bo, This Winchester Model 12 in 12 Gauge is in good condition with moderate wear to the wood surfaces and light thinning of the bluing on the barrel. 98% original, WINCHESTER MODEL 25 PUMP SHOTGUN SOLID FRAME MODEL BARREL LENGTH 28" CHOKE MODIFIED. It was John Olin who inspired Westerns revolutionary Super-Xshotshell in 1921. 14" LOP OVER THE ORIGINAL W, Up for sale I have a 100% NIB Winchester model 12 chambered in 16ga. Everything functions as it should. It is at my engraver now. Curious, I fired five additional patterns at 60 yards with Model 12 number 1418XXX and the Winchester load of 1 5/8-ounces of #4 shot. Tried to talk him out of doing it and sell him a build up gun but he wanted a vent rib on it as it was his dad's gun. The 1 5/8-ounce load of the mid-30s bought the 12 magnum a few more yards of range. Both guns were disassembled, cleaned and lightly oiled before testing. Winchester Model 42 Slide Action Shotgun with Simmons Vent RibManufactured in 1952. When it was. The silhouette provides a precise aiming point. , The Winchester Model 12 Y series was introduced in 1972 and made until about 1984. The duck gun made in 1952 has a Simmons ventilated rib. It is general consensus that 10 patterns are required for an accurate appraisal of a given load and barrel combination. You are also correct that the different rib styles used on Model 12's can get confusing..EG. You jack the shell out and it goes off under your nose. I was in Jr college then. Another sign of an after factory rib were the numer of 30" Full field guns later ribbed either with Simmons or MoneyMaker ventilated ribs, but the top milled groove in the receiver was a dead-give-away as to that, and when the Model 12 ruled the ATA roost, I am sure many "newbies" bought those modified and restocked field guns and thought - "Wow- now I have a Model 12 Trap gun- look out Vandalia, here I come"--I have several post 1935 12 gauge Model 12 buttstocks and also 18 ring forearms in my "parts boxes, also older logo and non-logo repro 12 gauge black bakelite buttplates-the 16 and 20 and 28- all on the same size receiver, take the same stock configuration. Duck guns always sold for a slight premium over the standard model. Since Every shotgun manufacturer is a friend of mine, Askins views were well known in the industry. 31 12 ga. pump shotgun w/ Simmons ventilated rib - walnut checkered stock & forearm - & 30" The Gun and the Times The Model 12 duck gun examined by the staff of the American Rifleman in 1936 was the earliest version. - Top Rated Plus - opens in a new window or tab, - eBay Money Back Guarantee - opens in a new window or tab. The survival of both Western and Winchester now depended on Olin management. 1938 lists the stock for a 12 gauge skeet grade as 14" with a Buttplate. An 80% pattern they felt should make it a real 60-yard outfit with No. Gun Digest editors know guns so you know guns. I hunker down and blaze away. I don't believe it has been fired. 26" Vent Rib Barrels Choked SKEET. 1935 3" magnum offerd, will convert all 12 gages if wanted to 3" magnums, the begining of the long forcing cone. The Olins were businessmen first and duck hunters second. Winchester - Model 12 Factory Try-Gun, 12ga, 30" Barrel. But I manage to concentrate, find the combination, and center a pair of easy sprigs. Askins concludes How far are we going to be able to kill ducks? If you pull the trigger and the shell does not fire you must push the slide handle forward to unlock the action. My name is Chuck 620 515 0556. It is possible for the slide lock to fail to unlock the action during recoil. Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. I know of a gun shop in Idaho that can take about any model 42 and put on round post ribs or solid ribs that are just like factory original with the proof marks. Winchester proof steel is chrome-molybdenum steel. Guns.com's selection won't leave you feeling unprepared. The 3-inch shell was chambered originally in the famous Super Fox long-range double. The era of plentiful ducks and liberal bag limits was also ending. Checkered semi-fancy walnut pistol grip stock with extended forearm and a solid Winchester recoil pad. Now I have never been wrong about anything in my lifeLOLjust kidding, but the way I read it on the top of page 109JMHOThanks, WC. the ventilated rib is by simmons gin works. rifle w/ Jaeger Quick Detachable scope mount 3 Remington mod. The Model 21 received duck gun status in 1940, although 3-inch chambers could be ordered earlier. In duck shooting the proportion of magazine guns in use is much higher, probably four men in five using the repeater. Askins added, Fact is, personally, I have always thought that I was surer on the second bird with a repeater than I was with a double gun. On gauges for duck hunting: No fault is to be found with the twelve [gauge] as a duck gun, whether in double barrel with 3 inch cases or in repeaters with 2 3/4 inch. Wood is in very good condition showing very little handling or wear marks. Very good condition overall. Item. These were turned out by the Hunter Arms Company of Fulton, N.Y. in L.C. . I am still going with "Winchester sent Model 12s to Simmons for ribs, but Simmons sold them." The finishes and rib are 100% Winchester and in great condi, Used Winchester Model 12 20 Gauge 26" barrel WS-1choked skeet Cutts compensator with restriction inserts good condition Buyer pays shipping Millers Gun Center Located in New, Winchester Model 12 pump action 12ga shotgun. Fanciers of long-range shotguns now had a 12-gauge repeater shooting a 10-gauge shot load. It also got a new action slide. Thomas C. Johnson came to Winchester in 1885 and remained a dedicated employee until his death in 1934. Copyright 1995-2023 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved. Pictures are of the item listed. My gun is a pump action Model 12 shotgun with a grooved slide handle (forearm). His shotguns were undoubtedly the best long-range duck guns he found in extensive testing. Remington's Nylon 66 semi-automatic .22 LR rifles have grown from 1950s bargain buys to 21st century collectors darlings. View cart for details. I put one of those BIG soft foam risers on the comb and shot it that way for years. The vent rib is stamped "SIMMONS GUN SPECIALTIES INC. KANSAS CITY, MO.". Model 12 Skeet Pump Shotgun. MAKE OFFER. Gunsmithing Services - Simmons Gun Repair Full list of professional Gunsmithing services and prices at Simmons Gun Repair Shop All productsBest sellingHand gunsRiflesShot gunsAmmunitionOther ServicesBuild an ARAboutFAQContact UsSign Up Shop All productsBest sellingHand gunsRiflesShot gunsAmmunitionOther ServicesBuild an ARAboutFAQContact UsSign Up He did note, however, that the rib first appeared at about serial number 240,000. Stay in the know. Buy a Winchester Model 12 12ga., 30-inch Full choke, Simmons ventilated rib; this gun was made in 1941 (se for sale by Vintage Sporting on GunsAmerica.com the best online marketplace for buying and selling semi auto pistols, firearms, accessories, and collectibles : 963027340 The short shot string put more shot into a duck whistling by at 50 yards. Save $500.02 SKU: 3226743 . Produced in 1961. - for PayPal Credit, opens in a new window or tab, about earning points with eBay Mastercard, Report this item - opens in new window or tab.